What is oDesk all about exactly?
by Dave on Feb.19, 2008, under Actual RIA info, Adobe Flex, Intense Nonsense
In a recent post, I made a comment or two about some quality projects I’ve found on oDesk.com. Apparently, some have questioned my understanding of oDesk, so I decided to take a deeper look into the site and their services.
Hmmm, yup, says here:
Welcome to oDesk, the online staffing marketplace connecting businesses (Buyers) to remote workers (Providers).
Seems to me they provide a marketplace for connecting businesses to remote workers. This isn’t exactly a new concept, there are other sites out there not unlike oDesk (guru.com, gofreelance.com, ifreelance.com) and the list goes on and on.
All these sites are more or less the same deal, companies post projects and look for workers to make a match. Outsourcing I like to call it, though I hardly coined the term, you may have heard of it before. Nothing wrong with the sites themselves, including oDesk. Some sites provide better deals than others of course, and some have more quality project postings than others. Let’s do a comparison for giggles.
In my first search on Guru.com, I looked for Adobe Flex jobs and found about 6 posted, with a low budget of $250 and a high of over $25,000. A good number of projects I see listed on Guru.com seem fair enough, there are of course some that seem a pinch pathetic. Not Guru.com’s fault of course, but some companies, it seems, would like a whole heaping wad of work done and would prefer to pay next to nothing to have it done, and have it done quickly I might add.
I know this may come as a surprise to some of you, but I’ve found far more of these types of projects listed on oDesk.com. In one quick search for current project listings, I came across such winners as “Cropping images in Photoshop” where the Beijing company seeking work to be done states:
We are offering a rate of $5 for a batch of 500 images split into 2. There is potential for further batches upon completion of this batch.
Although that would not only give you tons of experience in image cropping, as well as a great spotlight for your resume, by the time you get done with 10,000 images you would have earned yourself a cool $100 bill! Now I don’t know about you, but the people who pump electricity into my office, the cable company, the food store, the gas station, they seem to randomly raise their rates due to the “cost of living” and $100 doesn’t go very far these days. If I had any fingers left after the cropping of 10,000 images, I might not be able to grasp my $100, let alone toss it over to the aforementioned companies.
Let’s look at another project posted on oDesk.com. Here’s another, oh wait, is this a project? For a budget of $5 (literally) The listing says:
I am programming in ASP and using MYSQL database I just need the code for the following: 1. Say there is a tab on the navigation bar that says Buy. When a user points on buy a drop down appears with Land, Apartment, etc. If the user clicks on Land then I want all the land listings to display. So I need a query that would allow me to get all the land listings from my database and display on more …
Hold on hold on wait wait wait……I’ll need my $5 now if I’m going to read the rest of that post, I’m getting a headache. Again, not oDesk’s fault, it’s the people posting projects on these sites that give me indigestion. So to clear things up, follow me here, if I know anything about oDesk.com at all, its a guru.com-like, project outsourcing website where global buyers match up with global workers and either both parties end up with a handsome deal, or one party makes away with the goods while the other takes a good 5 across the eyes.
Does this sound like a reasonable assessment? Again, nothing against Mr. and Mrs. oDesk and family, but maybe they should weed out these types of silly projects. Or maybe they don’t mind those types at all? One of the testimonials on oDesks’s site says about a customer:
He has been using oDesk’s online service to find development help and said he works most closely with a programmer in Russia who is paid $15 per hour. A U.S.-based programmer doing similar work would expect hourly rates of $60 to $120
Firstly, to that I say, nay, not always so. Some of us American programmers would be willing (and have) worked for a Digg click, or maybe a trackback. In the near future, I may not be above doing a quick banner for a sandwich barter type arrangement. Secondly, being an American programmer as I am, this means one more job overseas for money I couldn’t compete with. Why? Because my cable company, the people pumping electricity into my office, the food store etc won’t be happy when I offer them a ham on rye as payment (barter deal once again) because I’m too poor to afford to pay them the frog skin.
The same company, however, would expect me to pay full price for my sneakers, aspirin, big screen tv that will be obsolete inside a year, and so on even though I may collect payments via an order to Subway.
Another company testimonial on oDesk.com states:
Drive your labor costs with oDesk, which makes it easy to find talented programmers on the cheap.
To add “mwahahahahhahaha” at the end of that sentence would most likely get even more buyers in the future. Here’s another company who wrote:
oDesk continues its efforts to improve tools that track jobs and knit together virtual workers from India to Russia ever more closely with the home office.
Very global of them. Here’s two lists of providers testimonials and buyer’s testimonials for your consideration if my post has you anxious to jump on in and sign up right away. You can find such buyer testimonials as the one who speaks almost lovingly of his Russian programmer he found on oDesk:
He is as talented as the best I have ever hired and he is easier to manage than many other programmers two offices down the hall.
Used in this context however, I’m not sure that I’d add that testimonial to my website if I were the Russian programmer. This being said, think of me what you will, vote for my post or shart upon it, I care not. This is a matter that strikes home for me, outsourcing and watching companies manipulate workers whether they be American, Russian, Indian, or even from a country that sounds like mangina. If we keep up at this rate, we’ll find ourselves working for such circus sideshow acts as
December 12th, 2009 on 7:16 am
Dear David,
This is a great site! Ur research into these so-called outsourcing online sites is absolutely crucial to helping naive, desperate, unemployed, employment seekers avoid getting scammed! I believe ur effort here started out as an effort to provide free help to unaware employment seekers; this is demonstrated by your comprehensive research into these web-sites and the fact that you even took the time to establish a web-site regarding the issue.
Furthermore, instead of just bitching, and closing the topic, you opened a discussion forum, moreove, welcomed debate – to me that is an honest effort.
And even though I don’t know you or have never met you in person, I trust your opinion and most all of your recommendations. Of course I’m not selling anything nor trying to make donations to your forum (too poor), but just thought I’d say “thank you” for your effort to help millions.
Take care and good luck,
Carlson
December 12th, 2009 on 10:35 am
Carlson, that’s the nicest comment I’ve received on this blog
Thank you very much!
I’ve been slacking off on writing because of workload, but I think it’s important to say it how it is. So you give me inspiration to get a move on and keep blogging
December 29th, 2009 on 10:09 am
“I used a company that hires out freelancers. But none were knowledgeable enough to fix our problem. We paid a lot for very low level talent who actually made the problem worse.”
>I totally agree with this situation.I’ve had similair problem.When it comes to REAL WORK you have not other choice exept to hir providers from your own country.As they KNOW what YOU WANT.That’s the problem why somebody will not work “under $30/hour” and somebody who will work for”$5/hour”.
You get what you pay.Perhaps a little bit cheaper in US or western Europe,but everything offered lower than 60% of the ordinary price and pay rates in US/EU is a headache later.A big big headache.Remember that forever.
January 30th, 2010 on 2:54 am
@EFC I don’t think anyone from any country is any smarter than anyone from any other country. That’s just not logical, and not how a programmer would think of things.
My Grandma used to say, you get what you pay for. I can only speak from my own experience, but I’d tell you I’ve had many projects that were rescues from outsourced before I came along.
Seems to me the Golden Rule is more than cheap talk
you get what you pay for goes a LOT further than cheap farmer’s almanac quotes.
Do unto programmers as you would have Wachovia do unto you. Then you can’t go wrong.
My personal advice is this, if you’re thinking of percentages, you’re thinking wrong. Do you have enough? Are you really satisfied? Do you need more? Has the world slighted you? If so, go and kick life in the noobs! If you’re so inclined, but remember, you get what you give…without exception. There’s no try/catch for that one
I promise.
February 10th, 2010 on 5:59 pm
I’ve actually tried oDesk in the past and although it wasn’t a bad experience – I tend to like Elance better. I guess its just that they have SO MANY qualified professionals to choose and so many great projects that they are hard to beat. Plus, their site is much easier to navigate and they seem to have safeguards to protect both buyers and providers.oDesk on the other hand, seems more buyer focused and less provider friendly.
March 23rd, 2010 on 4:03 pm
Can anyone tell me how to any fact is verified on any of these sites? I’ve been using oDesk frequently and my main concern now is that I have no proof that any fact from the providers is true, from their photo, education, skills, name, country, or even gender. and even the “Test” process is seriously flawed (I scored very high for Access and I’ve never used Access). Most of the tests can be cheated on by doing at the same time as a development/Google window is open.
At the moment I find I am having to put a lot of time into interviewing to make sure the skills are there, but that only shows they can do the job. I still can’t verify much about what the provider has entered.
Personally I see this as the single biggest issue buyers face.
March 25th, 2010 on 9:46 pm
That’s a rough one Phil. The tests and certifications can only get you so far. Personally, I find word of mouth and a colleague’s advice is worth far more for screening people. But whatever field you’re looking for, I’d start off with some quality screening tests at least.
May 8th, 2010 on 8:19 pm
There are ridiculously cheap employers out there, but there is also a world of talent ready to work.
BTW, $100 = 683 yuan, about a months pay for millions in China. Needless to say, they don’t enjoy our plush American lifestyle.
Sites like odesk are essential now for companies needing knowledge workers and services to remain competitive.
US programmers cannot compete on price. Just forget it, you’ll never be willing to suffer enough. You better be able to do more than the guy in Timbuktu and make your extra value clearly quantifiable, or else, Zàijiàn!
My suggestion, start making stuff people can use. Use your inherently unique value of actually understanding western users. E.g. lots of opportunity to make a decent living inventing mobile apps, widgets, etc. No able bodied coder has to starve.
Basically, US programmers are being economically abandoned by companies that can use offshore talent. You’ll have to re-invent yourselves as entrepreneurs.
May 8th, 2010 on 10:37 pm
@socean
Totally agree with a lot that you said. $100 may be a month’s pay for someone in China, and they may not enjoy our plush lifestyle (definitely not the ones in the sweatshops creating our Nike’s), but they’ve been building up savings accounts for the past few years now. Here in the States, 98% are treading water or out on our backsides, losing jobs, houses, health insurance, you name it.
I said before and I’ll say again, the companies (cough cough Microsoft cough cough) who dump American workers only to hire overseas workers, they’re just greedy bastards the way I see it. Here we are years later and this post is still very much alive, and hardly needs more evidence of corporate greed to back it up. All the large corps sold America down the river, they don’t care for anything but their bottom lines. The all mighty dollar triumphs overall.
How does MS hire 10 workers overseas for the same salary as they’d pay one worker in the States and then still maintain their prices as always? Where did that fantastic savings go? I’ll tell you where; same place it always goes. It lines Bill Gates’ pockets with yet more billions so he can decide (and afford) later in life to skip around the globe tossing mosquito nets around and occasionally marketing Windows 7, and feel good about himself.
The thing I’m happy with is I think people are finally starting to wake up and turn of the Wii’s long enough to realize they’re getting screwed over here. Yankees have worked ridiculously hard for decades and the greedy pigs at the top use us like plastic eating utensils only to be tossed away for cheaper ones somewhere down the road when we’re worn out, and yet their need to fill their gullets is ceaseless. Sooner or later the peasants get tired of it an inevitably they go and eat the rich, and a new society is born (think USA for example). Rich people don’t exist without heaps of poor below them.
Me personally? If I were to switch careers, I’d go into the pitchfork sharpening business. I foresee a big need for that service in the near future
May 9th, 2010 on 4:59 am
One thing to consider is “domain knowledge”. If you hire workers as part of your company you are building up a “tacit” and “explicit” knowledge – that is, knowledge that can be documented as well as knowledge about your organisation and their job that is very difficult to define, but is just as essential.
If this domain knowledge has no value, then every worker can be outsourced, including mangers and CEOs. Since that isn’t the case, then a lot of thought should be put into who holds domain knowledge, how and when it should be used and what value is put on it.
Outsourced and transient workers – by definition – can’t build and add domain knowledge to the organisation. Dropping one domestic worker for 10 outsourced workers might sound cheaper, but the loss in domain knowledge is likely to be fatal in the long run.
This happened in my country where a large telco cut costs by firing all their most expensive employees. At first they made a lot of money but after about 10 years their share price dropped dramatically because the most expensive employees were the ones that knew what they were doing (they had the most domain knowledge).